Reiki from the Farm™

Reiki and Religion - Protestantism with Justine Blizzard

July 24, 2022 Pamela Allen-LeBlanc/Justine Blizzard Season 3 Episode 29
Reiki from the Farm™
Reiki and Religion - Protestantism with Justine Blizzard
Show Notes Transcript

The fourth of a series of interviews around the religions from the World Peace Grids which states:  "May the followers of all religions and spiritual paths work together to create peace among all people on Earth." https://www.reiki.org/world-peace-grid-project

Justine explains the traditions of the Anglican branch of Protestantism, as Pam discusses the United church branch.  And then we share a meditation that celebrates our Religious freedom.

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Pam Allen-LeBlanc is a scientist, a businesswoman, and a Licensed Reiki Master Teacher with the International Center for Reiki Training.  She is the author of "The Reiki Business Book" and a co-author of ICRT Animal Reiki training.  Pam teaches Reiki, Animal Reiki, and Animal Communication online and in-person in Ca

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Pam:

On this week's podcast, I am talking with my friend and student Justin blizzard about Reiki and Protestantism and just her experiences with a Protestant religion and all the way in with a bit of my own. This is how I was raised as well. So this series on religions is part of something that I was guided to create back in 2017. I started writing a book called all roads lead home, and it's a book that is supposed to help us understand each other and our different religious and spiritual perspectives so that we. Realize that no matter what name we use to call source or God or Allah or Jehovah life or universal energy, the universe, no matter what name we use, no matter what tradition we follow, we're all the same at our core. And we're all striving to do the same things. We're all striving to be good people and to connect with source with spirit with God. And so I'm really glad that you're here this week, Justine, to talk to us about this. Thank you.

Justine:

Thank you for having me

Pam:

on It's my pleasure. So before we go too far, I'll just let you know some of the things that we have coming up at the farm. I'm in the midst of teaching Reiki in the Asian time zone and I'll be starting on Tuesday to teach Reiki masters in an Asian and European friendly time zone. Please join us if you wish the classes are not full. Those are online classes. They're evenings in Asia and early mornings in Australia. I'm also next weekend teaching a wonderful course on Capello island, animal Reiki, and We'll actually be, doing the class, just rape in the vicinity of the ocean. The oceans have been asking for some help lately. And so I've been guided to create a class on Campobello island, beautiful, magical island, and we'll do the class Saturday, Sunday, Monday, we'll head out and visit with the whales. We're going to go out on a whale tour. And in addition, we may see puffins and razor bills and this sort of thing. So I'd love to have you join us if you want to join us, but can't come in. Person, get in touch with me. It is intended to be an in person class, but it's not full at the moment. So we may be able to accommodate some online students, and that will be followed by an animal Reiki master class in August in the Australian friendly time zone, which is early mornings in Australia, very early mornings in Asia evenings here in north America. I'll be teaching. Holy fire three world peace Kaurna Reiki class, and that's a licensed class as well as my own animal communication. And in October I have a full lineup of classes. If you don't already get our newsletter, there's a link. Please go ahead and sign up so that we can stay in touch every week. And if you are looking to purchase the Reiki business book, there's also a link to how you can purchase that in the podcast, through amazon.ca or.com. If you live somewhere else and Aren't sure how to get it. Go ahead and reach out to me. And I'll, get you connected. It is available in 40,000 retailers around the world in, paperback, and it's available as an ebook as well. Justine, I know we, we're gonna put your contact information in, but you don't have any classes scheduled at the moment and correct. But people can reach out to you if yes. If they're interested in classes yeah. Okay. And you also teach a fantastic class. I don't know. Do you still teach the class about end of life support with Reiki?

Justine:

Yeah. Reiki and palliative care. It's a workshop. We usually do it in small groups and I do it with I can't say former partner, but a partner, a business partner, Jocelyn Douglas trier, who we used to share a space with and we put this together. And she she comes from a nursing home background and we thought we would put a course together and it's, been fairly well attended and there's usually a lot of interest in it, but if you are interested, just have to get hold of me at earth and Reiki studio. And you can do that through Facebook. Wonderful. We'll put your Facebook link as well adjusting and yeah, thank you. I actually, that course is on my bucket list and I, think sometimes you teach it online sometimes in person. Yeah. And I intend to take that as soon as it works in my schedule. So so everyone, before we go too far, I'll just invite you to bring your hands together and Gassho with your thumbs at your heart and just breathe, activating your Reiki, energy, and your Reiki, symbols, and just breathing in. The Reiki energy today and opening your mind and your body and your heart, your chakras, your spirit. As we listen to different perspectives around Reiki and religion, and specifically following the religions of the world, peace grids, which say may the followers of all religions and spiritual paths work together to create peace among all people on earth. I'm reminded that there are 7 billion people on the planet and each one of us has a different perspective. And one day as I was doing myself Reiki, and just thinking about that, I was shown that if God or source or whatever name you want to use was an enormous ball of light in the center of the 7 billion of us. Every one of us can see a slightly different angle. And yet each one of us is still seeing source God Jehovah, and that when we can understand the angles and perspectives of others, we then can understand source. So our father with more depth and in its totality, So I invite you to listen today with an open heart and an open mind to another perspective and as always the intention to learn and grow and understand each other, just feeling the unification consciousness flow between us. As we realize that we are all one and that we all have at our core, this interest in serving others, this interest in connecting with God with source energy, and just doing well in the world. Thank you for being here today. Namaste be and all Amen. So Justine, I just wanna start by letting the listeners know that one of the reasons I really wanted to interview you for this piece about Reiki and Christianity in particular, the Protestant religions and understanding that we're not going to be able to cover all of the different aspects of Protestantism, but you have an Anglican background. I have a United church background, and so we'll just, we'll cover a few at least. But you were a big part of my healing and my understanding. I could never really get to source. I could never get that. spiritual connection in my church. And I don't think there's anything wrong with my church. I think there's a lot of people that did get to it in my church, but I didn't see that. And I had formed the belief that it wasn't possible to to get a deep, spiritual connection within a church setting to me the, rules and, some of the contrasts within the church were just too much for me to absorb and to wrap my head around. And you and your daughter, when you came and studied Reiki with me really helped me heal that I, looked at the two of you and I went, wow. They did get that deep spiritual connection and they got it through their church. And not only that, was what I felt then led you to a Reiki class. And so you really helped change my. Perspective and my perception just seeing you seeing that young woman. And I think she was just young when she started yep. Being Reiki and the two of you came and, it was so beautiful to share Reiki with you and you helped me see how Reiki really did blend beautifully with religion. And so I thank you for that. And with that in mind, I wonder if you can tell us a little bit about your spiritual traditions, what you follow and your, beliefs and your understandings and and, even some of the, traditions, some of the, celebrations and this sort of thing. So just tell us about and, were you always part of the Anglican tradit. No, I wasn't actually, I, I did come from we didn't go to church every Sunday. I think that my mom went to church to sing. Oh, okay. That was my impression. And, my father didn't generally go and that. After he's passed. I realize how interesting that is. And I, might get to that as, we get moving further along. But when I did go to church, we actually went to a United church because it was the closest one to us. And and I, my parents, when both my sister and I got to our 10th birthday, we received a king James version Bible. That's the one with the THS and the thigh and say, I am

Pam:

one of those few of those

Justine:

read letter edition. And my mother love letter edition. Yeah. Yeah. My mom used to take that to uh, to church, to read when she, read any passages for, any services, because the Bible that they used in the United church at that time was Probably a new international version or something else didn't make the red letters. And and my mother came from a Methodist, very strict Methodist background. Okay. She was a very quiet lady, had very strong opinions about things. But I still think that she went to they didn't talk a whole lot. I didn't think a whole lot about, their beliefs, but they lived their beliefs, which was something I didn't notice until I, I grew up. But saying that when I was 16, I got myself a job at a summer camp, which was an Anglican summer camp. One of my friends got me a job as a lifeguard. And that this was my dream job. I wanted to, I got my qualifications, the minimum qualifications to work as a lifeguard. And I wanted to work in a summer camp. And this. Opportunity to work at a church camp happened. And I thought that was great because I really wanted to learn more about our creator. And I, did pray, I think, I didn't think a whole lot about Jesus or the apostles or prophets or anything. And I, when I prayed, I called the creator, sir, oh,

Pam:

that's new. I haven't heard that, but I like it

Justine:

so obviously I, felt a connection. I had a connection and I did so in a very respectful way. And in, a, in. Awe in awe, I suppose would be it. So I, there, I met people like me and I learned a great deal about Christianity from a slightly different, and I'm gonna use the term religious point of view because we did have a chapel there. We had services there, but it, the staff were young. The music was contemporary with guitars and stuff and, it was completely different than the opera on piano and handle that I was brought up within my home. And I just I learned more and at that time in order, and I, got baptized that summer in the August of that summer. And, what

Pam:

tradition did you say

Justine:

that one was? It was Anglican It was Anglican tradition and they have articles of faith that I had to read and understand and say, I got it. And, I spent most of my summer really questioning them because some of the stuff in there, I thought what but I went along with it because, it was very inspirational. And as I grow older I, understand the articles of faith much more. And they're, really. Too, bad there's always things about sin and things and in there. And, I was at the time in a relationship with somebody who, did. Sell drugs and hung around with people that were, not really people I should be hanging around with if I can use that term. But they were I think it an actual fact in retrospect, and probably I thought this at the time I was able to lead them. They, didn't understand this group of people, how I could live in a time and hang around with them and not take drugs. That's, where I first became an Anglican and I didn't attend church services. I, hung out with my Anglican friends at youth group. And it wasn't until I joined the choir and went to church in order to sing that I started to really take part in a regular church service. And Anglicanism in many senses is close to a Catholic church service. There are some yeah In, the, if I may say the PO and circumstance of it and the fact that we wear Clothing to cover the clothing that we're wearing. And, I'm figuring it so that we're all uniform and we don't cause attention to ourselves, but it's what we say, and what we believe that that comes out. That people are to listen to they're they're very archaic outfits but that's that's the way it is. But yeah, they there's a procession in, there's a procession out there's candles lit there's specific written words that you follow throughout a service and they have been updated and modernized and you have choices of what services you want. But it is a little different than some Protestant religions where they prey off the cuff, where they are, not using books all the time. They might have an order of service, that what songs you're singing, but that there's a mixture of, music that happens. And but there's a, there's also. A comfort in knowing what words are coming up. My

Pam:

friend explained that to me, that she had decided actually she left the Baptist tradition and decided to adopt the Anglican because she, loved the, that it was always the same, that the service was always the same and you could depend on it and it was the same. And she felt that it connected her with the history, the, yes, the fact that people have been saying that same service. For centuries. Yep.

Justine:

Yep. Since 15 something yeah, but, and the words are beautiful. There's descriptions in there and, but they're, they uphold the awesomeness and the, worship of our creator of God and that's what I find comforting in it. But every once in a while it's what, am I doing? Why can't? And I, feels Aing it does, I'm a lay reader in my church. Okay. And that means that I just help the minister prepare for the services at, this particular time that we're in now our communion service, which is a bread in the form of unle. Like it's a wafer. Yeah. And and wine, we just use the bread. There's no sipping of the wine, no dipping of the wine, that type of thing. But so that, that's what a layer reader would help with. So now it's just readings and saying the prayers. And when I get the prayers to read and I go up to read them, I so often want to do as, we do in, Reiki, when we're doing invocations is, wing it and add our own things. And because you're in, your gowns and you're very rigid about things and you stand up and sit down and it's it's, an exercise routine. Some days you're up and down long. My father

Pam:

calls Catholic aerobics. we go to a wedding.

Justine:

Yeah So, I, I. Sometimes I will add a name or, something to a, prayer list or say something. I think that, my minister, my rector would probably have no issue with it, but you might panic a little bit if I went off script. Sometimes you get moved by things, but because you're in this You can't I do know some Anglican friends of mine who go to a church where, they do open prayer. Okay. And they just leave time for people just to call out and say their, prayers are That type of thing, but that's, few and far between, I believe when it, it comes to the ink and service.

Pam:

Yeah. For the most part, it is really scripted. Isn't it like? And yeah, we did attend an Anglican church out here for a little while. The sweetest little church and yeah. Anyway, they tore the church down, so it's not there anymore, but but I, enjoyed it. I thought it was quite lovely, but I also hadn't been in it for a very long time yeah. But you did find your connection with God with the creator in, this. And that was very evident to me when you showed up in class. And I also I think when you showed up, I was in a place where maybe I had been judged a little bit. From some people within the, Christian community for being a Reiki practitioner, just and I think that had a lot of layers to it. I think that I expected to be judged. So therefore I was judged and I probably still had some judgment within myself that I needed to heal. And I noticed that there is very little judgment. Now, in fact, recently my mother sent one of my podcast. To our new, her new minister now I dunno if this is complimentary, he said, she said he was having trouble sleeping. I, she said, I sent him your podcast. I said, here, listen to her voice. That'll put you to sleep. I was very flattered at the same time that you know, that my mom, who also goes to church to sing and is in the choir and has been at various times the junior choir director and the choir director. And and, I was very involved in the United church. I taught Sunday school and And I had perfect attendance for 18 years until I went to university and about all the while that I lived at home and went to the church and nobody ever had to force me to go to church, I actually really enjoyed going. I just found at one point that the container wasn't painter, wasn't it, wasn't bringing me that close connection with spirit that I wanted. And and yet I, am aware that many other people found that close connection. Through the very same church that I wasn't able to find it through. And I think sometimes that's even why people go to other religions and, whatnot. And you, have an interesting story. I, think you also, it's not uncommon for me to get students Who are practicing Christian students, of course, Reiki and Christianity goes together beautifully. And yet many, not many, but enough are concerned that they will be judged by the other members of their congregation of their church. And and I think you expected that, but quite the opposite happened. Yeah. Can you tell us about that?

Justine:

I, always was a little concerned because. I knew that I was about Jesus' work. Yeah. That, that this is healing and this is what we are called to do. And I knew that, but I also thought to myself because in Catholicism, as well as in Anglicanism in order to be there's confession and you use a confessor, you have confession. I

Pam:

would've changed to anglis to become Anglican just for that. I was always jealous that you

Justine:

it's a little bit different and be absolved. And we had to

Pam:

carry our guilt, the rest

Justine:

of our lives. Sorry. Yeah. okay. It's different. I know that Catholic churches now some of them have it within their service rather than having to go to a booth,

Pam:

like whether doing it individually, right? Yeah.

Justine:

Yeah. But we do confess our sins and we confess our sins to the minister of our church and the minister of our church absolves us of the sins.

Pam:

I was always jealous of that Justine. That you guys do that.

Justine:

Yeah, but we don't need the middle person. I don't know. I'm sure it's, I'm sure I don't have the Bible memorized but I'm pretty sure that Jesus didn't like he wanted to us to go directly yeah. To God with, nothing in between. And I've always, felt that. So that's one of the things that sometimes I, think I we're, not so greatest to be able to gather the crumbs under your table. And I'm thinking, Joe, God created me like him. And I understand that it, that God is bigger. He is, or he, or they, or whatever, I'll use that pronoun cuz I'm the habit created this whole universe and it is so awesome. And I know how big that is and I know he created. And, it's that. The sort of definition of Christ not, Jesus, but Christ is in creation in everything that is that, so we are a little small, but I think that I can gather the crumbs under the table. I can eat in the banquet hall. I can right. So that there's some that some things that do make you smaller right. Than I think God and Jesus want us to be I've lost my point, but I hope that's a different point.

Pam:

And what I was talking about is, about how you expected to be, it is a great point expected to be judged but, it didn't actually happen. Did

Justine:

it? It didn't happen. I, so thinking that, that. I would have put myself in the place of that person who could do the solutions in the place of the rector and the and that's what some Protestant churches have become Protestant for is so there's not that person in between, is that, that you can speak directly to God. So I, thought they're not gonna this because I'm, actually doing this. I'm not going through the minister to be healed. You're connecting directly

Pam:

with God and I'm

Justine:

connecting directly and, that other people might. And I have heard it actually in my church from a fellow choir member making some comment, because on the way to church, one day, a friend of mine was in a car accident. It was was for a coral thing that wasn't a church related coral thing. We just happened to be there. And somebody else took this girl aside. She was shook, shooken up. She wasn't physically injured and said, here, let me do some Reiki on you. I didn't even know she was a Reiki person. All right. She beat me to it. She, so she did that. And a, fellow from my church made some sort of comment about, it as, as being off or this is crazy or woo, woo kind of thing. And I thought, no, it's not. So I, do feel a little judge and I've actually said a couple of things in the past. So he knows now that I'm a Reiki practitioner. And I think that he's a lovely man. I was really quite shocked that he would say that, but perhaps it was ego. I don't know. I know it was ego. So you do get that judgment. But it

Pam:

seems to me that somebody, you expected to judge you didn't

Justine:

at all. Didn't and that was my rector. Yeah. She asked me to be a church warden, which is the chair of the vestry, which runs the church. And so I, she came to my house to ask me because it's a big it's a big job. And so I sent to her, I have to tell you something, before we do this, you need to know. That I'm a Reiki practitioner and I just sat there waiting for it. and she looked at me and she said, and I've known her for about 40 years. And she looked at me and. That's really cool. and apparently her, sister-in-law who's married to a minister is an energy worker. She works with she's a physiotherapist. Wonderful. And this is, she thinks it's fantastic. And wants to learn a little bit more about it, which is good, but it was such a burden was lifted. The burden was my imagination. And something that I gave myself.

Pam:

Yeah, I did the same thing. And when I, saw my, priest, the priest who baptized our children and who was present at my marriage, my husband is Catholic and I was raised Protestant. And I, I said in another podcast, but my, family used to say, don't marry a French boy. Don't marry a Catholic boy. And his family used to say, don't marry an English girl. Don't marry a Protestant girl. It'll never work out. And it's, coming on 26 years now. that it's worked

Justine:

out Yep.

Pam:

But But when I ran into father Monty, he said, what are you doing now? And I said I don't know how your Pope feels about this. And he said, oh it doesn't matter there. And I told him, and he just said, that's fantastic. He said tell me a little bit more about it. And he would just, he couldn't have been more supportive and it's interesting, isn't it? So I kind of wonder sometimes we are truly judged and, it's usually by people who don't understand who, just don't understand it and maybe have some fear around the things that they don't understand, or maybe some misconceptions or, so on. But I, I was actually, when I did the work and stopped, expecting to be judged, I found that I wasn't judged. As much, and the world has changed too. I, when I started teaching in 2011 people, you said Reiki, people looked a little concerned and backed away and they might even make the sign of the witch as they're backing away and protect themselves. Yeah. But but I noticed in time that so many people became open to it. And in fact, now when you say Reiki practitioner, almost everybody. Somebody who does Reiki and, has some yeah. Understanding. So tell me a little bit more about how Reiki fits with your beliefs, your religious beliefs, and how, does that go together for you?

Justine:

I thought it was when I did my level two with you and I, think I've told you this lovely story and with level two, at that time, we did attunements and it was probably the most fantastic Reiki experience that I've ever had. It was really a moving experience and it, changed almost everything for me. And part of it was because we, made the connection to our spirit guides and I, we were in a meditation and I was getting a little perturbed. I sometimes get perturbed in meditation. ego. You're not alone. I was getting perturbed because you had told me I was gonna see my, Reiki guide. And so I'm looking and I'm getting black squiggly stuff, which is, wasn't like the other meditations, which were lovely and colorful. And, I thought it's a spider. Jesus. Why am I not seeing, can you show me. Who this blob is. And I kept saying, Jesus, I'm praying. Show me my So I get home. And after every course that I take, I reconciled what I had learned with my faith and where it fit. So I could explain it because it right was different to me, something completely different. I hadn't had a. Reiki healing treatment before this was just going in and I'm sitting there and I saying, why didn't you show me my spirit guide and, he's laughing now and I can feel it on me now, cuz I got this tapping on my shoulder and said, Hey lady, I'm here. You're asking you don't need, you're talking to me all along. You

Pam:

knew I

Justine:

was your guide. yeah. And I felt quite foolish, but I laughed and I, have had that relationship with Jesus and this and ever since. And it he often laughs at me. Yes. As well as with me.

Pam:

Same, we, are, we laugh a lot. He's funny too.

Justine:

absolutely fantastic sense of humor, as well as any, spirit that I've asked to help me, if I'm using my dousing rod or my pendulum or something, it they're just making fun of me. and I think it's because I need to trust my own intuition and my own faith and it's, really quite quite bizarre to me, but I also during, and I have to say this during that that Reiki two session We also had an opportunity to speak to our ancestors. And in that class, I also had my daughter with me. Yeah. And we, had a triangle around us and one of the people in that triangle was my dad and this is the man who I had at one point in my life, told him that I didn't think that he taught us a great deal about God. And I realized that I wounded him when I said that. Because we had a little conversation with him that you, because of your gifts. And I, and you probably don't remember, except that I, have mentioned it before that my dad was, at this time, he had just passed in 2008. So it was four years later that my father was in the third heaven and I thought. Wow, that blows me away. Because I'd never thought about that. And I have since had my dad come to courses and I've not seen him, but other people in the room have identified him as being present. Wow. And, I have been able to not dwell on my dad because I know he is about my father's business and I don't need to have him on my shoulder and I don't need to grieve him. And it really changed my whole opinion about death. Wow. And so I'm no longer afraid of. I'm mourn people, but I know it's just me missing them. Yes. But I know that they're part of Christ. They're part of creation. They're not here physically. Like we're just dipped here on earth for a little while. And then off we go to do whatever we're supposed to do and hopefully we do it well. But it really changed my attitude. I haven't told my sisters that I've had this, connection because I, feel that it would bother them to a certain extent, but it might not. But it, was, and you also told me that my dad said that I was his favorite.

Pam:

My apologies to your sister. I usually repeat what I

Justine:

hear was a bit of a joke, but it was it, really. That sent me on my way and really, changed my beliefs and, made me interested in taking courses on end of life care and death doula and that type of thing. And though I haven't used it a great deal. It is something that, that I'm fascinated with. And, I find myself responding differently when I have friends whose, parents die, whose friends die. What hurts me is, their hurt. Yes. Because I know there's something else, there's something after that. And you wanna help with

Pam:

that? Yeah. Justine I, find that I look at death differently as well. And a lot of it for me has been partly what Reiki has shown me and then partly with what working with the animals has shown me and. It's just a continuation of life and they, say that the most important breaths are the first and the last. And so tell me a little bit about some of the traditions that you followed with Anglicanism some of the, holidays you celebrated and this sort of thing.

Justine:

My I have two favorite days when it comes to that Anglican tradition follows a, fair, a really strict church calendar. Okay. And, I, no friends from different Protestant paths that, they don't follow a church calendar. And I, I find it a little sad. The, last day of the church year is called Christ the king. And it is usually around September, sometime, September or October, maybe even November. I don't know. I don't have it memorized but it is, to me, it is just the awesomeness of creation and they often call it stir up Sunday. That really, you do things a little bit differently. Perhaps the church gets together a afterwards and sometimes they play games or they when we had a lot of kids in church it, was a big family day and we did things a little bit differently. But I, just like the awesomeness of that service, the other one is one called Pentecost. And the church year is, a little weird because it starts and most, people. Everybody knows Christmas comes when Christ was born and then four months later, it's the crucifixion and it's Easter and, the rest of the year there's stuff that's to be done. But one of the things that I love is Pentecost. And in Pentecost, we try to get everybody to wear red because that celebrates the day and the time. And the moment when the holy spirit comes to the disciples and the apostles. Okay. And how that holy spirit was breathed, into those people and, how that spread. And because I'm a member of the choir, I get to sing songs about this. And we had, we have one song that is absolutely ancient. Like it's the words came from 1700 and then, but it's, a trilogy. So there's three different parts to it. And, how the holy spirit was breathed onto each person, but they talked to it. Talk. As being fire lit above each person in the room. And I get chills just thinking about it. Partly because I know it's the holy fire. Yes. And partly because when I did my Kaurna masters with holy fire, The person beside again, I was in a meditation where I got nothing. I did get something, but I saw nothing. And the person beside me said, don't worry, Justin. I opened my eyes and the holy fire lit upon every person's head around the room. wow. That was 2019. She said that. And just recently that we, were singing this, particular song and the particular words, and it is it's based on the words that, are in the Bible, but it's, you could just see it being lit on above everybody's head. Wow. And yeah. It, is the same thing. It's part of creation that, that fire and the spirit that we don't see that is amongst all of us, no matter what our religious faith is. I. It's, it doesn't have, as we've mentioned before, Jesus was not a Christian. He was not it people who followed, I. Jesus became Christians. And at some point they needed to I'm not gonna say restrain, but standardize it right. Or organize. And, some of it was beautiful. In fact, most of it was beautiful. And others became sells because of it. And, did things. Or horrible. I

Pam:

was talking, we were talk, I was talking with last week with Tracy about Catholicism and she was talking about some of the trauma in, the Catholic church that and, it's been in the news about just child abuse and, just hoard things that our native American brothers and sisters had to suffer from. And there's, I think there's always in any religion or spiritual tradition or any, organization there's always people that will take advantage or that will that will not always come from the best place. And I think that's what creates religious trauma. And I, it, that kind of leads into my question for you because I actually, I did struggle with religious trauma. I struggled with having been raised as a Christian and then realizing that Christianity had had been responsible for things like the crusades and the witch hunts and the inquisition and, things of the, that nature. I actually had to really step away from it for a little while. And as I sorted this out, and that's where you, brought me back to it, thankfully. But I had to step away from it. And my religious trauma was strong enough that I couldn't even use the word God for a very long time. And I do use that word again now. Not because it's a better word than any other word. It's the one that's the most familiar to me. Because the one that I was raised with. And so therefore, once I healed my religious trauma, I was able to take the, that word back. But until I did I, couldn't, and I was really drawn more to native spirituality and things like that. Did you ever struggle with any religious trauma in your journey or has that been largely non-existent for you?

Justine:

I, think that there is some somewhere, but I, for the most part brought upon myself. Okay. Again that just from reading and my expectations again, My, my family. I don't know that my, my mother was baptized. I don't think that she was and in the Christian tradition that's, a very important thing. My father said, there's we have three girls in my family and my eldest daughter was baptized. But my sister, Liz and I were not, and my father told me that it was because he felt we needed to find our own place. And follow our own religion and make the choice for ourselves. And I really respected that. That's very liberal. Yeah. It's very liberal. I think we're about the same

Pam:

age. That's very liberal for the

Justine:

time. Yeah. And I appreciate that, but I also had the opportunity to To make that choice. And my sister my middle sister has, not I know that the choice is always there with her and it used to bother me a whole lot, but she wasn't baptized, but it doesn't bother me now because I know that's an important part and I know that it's, part of washing ourselves clean and accepting Jesus and accepting the holy spirit. But I know she'll get where she needs to be in her own, path. Yeah. So I don't need to worry about that. It's her journey. It's her life. And I know. That she's not gonna be condemned because of it. No. Baptism can come in many different forms and it doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be a certain body of water. A certain time with certain words set.

Pam:

I think there's many ways to get there.

Justine:

Yeah. Many ways to get there. And, I think that's important to know when it comes to world religion. There are many paths to get to knowing and as a Christian I believe it's knowing Jesus and knowing his story and his beliefs and what he taught us and the crucifixion at the end, what that means there are other ways, in fact, Jesus even said that there this guy's preaching something else, but he is talking about what I represent. It's coming from another way. So we don't condemn him. We let him do that because the end result will hopefully be the same. I don't think he said that exact quote, but that's you know what he meant, but it's it. It all works out.

Pam:

It does. And I think that everybody gets there in their own way and and, I think everybody's doing their best and, that's okay. And even we, will be inter interviewing in this series, atheists and agnostic, and hopefully, I'll be able to find some to interview because I find that point of view fascinating as well. And and they are also included in the world peace grids. So I think everybody, everybody gets there their own way. How would you say Justin? I'm just thinking about one of the things you said about the holy fire, like the fire coming down and that's to me, that's a verse in X to chapter two of the Christian Bible, which talks about the fires licking down from the heavens and going around them. And in fact it's, in the, part about the Pentecost. Yep. And I've equated that with holy fire as well. And I've also been aware that the fire, the holy fire, the spiritual fire exists, not only in Christianity, it exists in just about every major world tradition, our native American friends have their spiritual flame and fire as one of the four elements. Our Zo ASTE has the fire Hindu it's it exists everywhere. And so would you ex would you describe, or would you explain that that Reiki has actually helped you and, brought more depth to your spiritual understanding or your, religious. Observ.

Justine:

Yeah. It, it definitely has it, it, opened my heart and my mind when people would talk about chakras, I think what the Heki, I, have also taken courses back in university on acupuncture and, all the, nodes and where those are and how you work with them. Cuz I was a little curious cuz it sounded a little iffy to me. And how knowing what the chakras are, where they are and how they work with. So we have a, one Asian type of structure of energy in the chakras. Then we have acupuncture, which came from a Chinese background. Then we have. Reiki which deals with our hands it's, all moving energy within us. It's a different circulatory system than our lymph nodes or our blood systems and hard to track. But they have seen some of this in, different photograph techniques. But it really has opened my mind to. There is so much energy. You can feel it. I felt it before I had Reiki, but I didn't know what it was in my hands. And just to be able to know what it is and use, it and intend it. I would never have had that before, but never known what the Heki. It was it just hot hands right. But now it's not just my hands. I feel it And what used to take a couple minutes to do once we had the holy fire, it was almost instantaneous. Now this, with this world piece it's, different. It's a little rough. To me, but it, almost you don't feel it go, out. It kind of zips in. Yeah. It's, an amazing, mind blowing that, I can actually intend this to help people. Yeah. And when I'm doing sessions with people and they're saying I, have had people who have said I didn't feel. Back when I was level, level two and thinking about myself and the ego was getting in there and getting in my way. And now I do meditations when I do these, and even before I started adding meditations, once I got my holy fire, people are just kinda woo. They either just feel completely relaxed or they're actually feeling the energy go through them and, it blows my mind that. Little old me little quiet Justine could actually channel the holy spirit, the holy fire and everything that God wants this person to have. Yeah. Through me. Yeah. I feel very humbled, but I also feel very empowered. And the person that I, have seen in my dreams. The me that I've seen in my dreams is something that is not a person belonging to a specific faith. It's a very powerful sort of tribal person with strong Armor with a job to do. And it scares me but it is very,,very, empowering. Yes. With no ego it's nothing but miraculous to me, but it is being part of creation. Part of, that Christ of, what the rocks, the trees, the animals, the whales, the you and me and inanimate objects that, that God has put down here or wherever he puts, whatever he puts that we're all part of that. And sometimes it makes Christianity very small. you know what I mean?

Pam:

Yes, I do. Yes. I do

Justine:

not unimportant, but not just part of the

Pam:

whole yeah. Part of the whole. I, I know when I, do work with Jesus as a guide and that's not because of my Christian background. I actually deliberately didn't work with him as a guide. And when Reiki was showing me that I was to change and to work with Jesus as a guide, I resisted it very strongly. And and, now I, gosh I, love working with him. I, find him very non-denominational, but I remember asking a question right at the beginning of him. I said, listen, let's get something straight, right from the start. Are you really the son of God? And I, because I, did have difficulty with this one person is the son of God and, whatnot and, just some of the exclusion within the religion and as I understood it and he said, yes, I am. And just, I always love when I'm shocked, by the answers I received through intuitive conversation like that. Because then I know I'm not making it up. And I was shocked and he said, and so are you, and so is everyone else and I realized where I said, oh my gosh, I, that is true. We are. The children of God, regardless of how we express that or choose to, worship it or be aware of it, regardless of the traditions that we follow, we are all children of the source of the spirit. And so I, thought that was so beautiful. And, I do working with him now.

Justine:

yeah. Yeah. And

Pam:

it's not a Christian connotation, but and, he has said to me, no, I wasn't Christian. And I thought, yeah, that's true.

Justine:

It's a bit shocking when you first realize that But I, must say that because I think that I was probably not, I was probably in your, within your first year or so of you were of teaching. Yeah. And, I have I knew when, I. First in my first class just listening to you and there were some things that were a little controversial to, my thoughts, but what went through my mind is, that you were blessed. There was something very special about you and I have with great joy, watched your journey. And, I realized that I have I'm on a journey and, we are gonna keep evolving. And I remember at one point thinking to myself, I am here for you, Pam, and you are here for me. Yes. And we're like going like this through a journey and, going in different directions. But I. Every evolution, every course that I've taken, there's been a slight change. And I always think, yes, and it's not towards Christianity. It's just I'm, amazed by the evolution of you. I'm amazed at the potential of all of us being able to, move in on a journey and think about where we're going. Wow. It it, blows me away and I'm, very pleased that I get to, go through this journey. We haven't spent a lot of time with each other but Hey, go through this journey with you. And I know that all your students feel that way may, maybe me more than anybody but I'm just in awe of that. And it has helped me grow watching you and yeah.

Pam:

Oh, my gosh. I don't feel like I deserve that. That is so beautiful. Thank you. no problem. I, feel that Reiki brings an evolution to us all. Yeah. And and, whatever that looks like for each of us, I think that it's exactly right for each of us remembering that we all have a different perspective and therefore, a different way that we need to connect or understand or, whatever. But I think thank you, Justin. What a beautiful for you to say? Is there anything you'd like to add before we move into our closing prayer today?

Justine:

Just to really be open to have, I really wanna encourage any of your listeners to to, let themselves be open, to try. If, there is trauma is if there is the traditions that are hard to get around to, to maybe get out of their own way and think about, and go back and, ponder, and there is. Art article in this, section's of the years, I think it's a summer edition of the Reiki news magazine on, evangelical Christianity and Reiki. And it is, there are some really eye opening things in it. Yeah. Some that I found a little confusing, but it's because I was interested in the beginning part, but it's, very thought-provoking and so I encouraged

Pam:

to take a look at, yeah, I thought so too. And I think that Reiki and Christianity goes so beautifully together and certainly it helped heal a lot of what was keeping me separate from it. And So I and you were a big part of that. So you were there for me is not just, I was there for you. well, guys, I think we're going to just move into our final prayer today. And so once again, I'm going to invite everyone to bring your hands together and your thumbs at your heart. And I just wanna thank Justin so much for sharing her experiences with us today and just activating your Reiki, energy and breathing in the light. That's all around you. The light of Reiki and the unification consciousness that makes us all one. And just imagine your heart touching the heart of every other listener of this podcast today. And knowing that regardless of our beliefs, we are all pure love at the core of our being. I invite you to place your hands comfortably on your body, on your heart. If you feel guided, I'm just giving yourself Reiki

Justine:

and just

Pam:

embracing that openness. We are so blessed to live at a time where there is freedom of expression, including freedom of religious expression. There was a time not long ago as short of time ago as the 1970s,

Justine:

when

Pam:

people would be oppressed for their religious traditions and beliefs. And we are so blessed to live at a time. An age of the inner authority where we get to choose.

Justine:

And

Pam:

sometimes the religious or spiritual traditions confine us, or make us feel confined or held or closed. And if you've ever felt that way, I invite you to just release those FETs and the confining feelings, and just understand that each of us is free to be who we are within whatever container we choose.

Justine:

And we're just going to

Pam:

stay here for a while, just that you can feel ease and comfort and freedom. freedom of expression, freedom to be your authentic self within whatever containers you may have chosen to chosen, to observe or to use, to define yourself. And we'll stay here for a few moments. And as we feel the bindings release from us. We realize that all of the containers are connected. We are indeed connected with every other person on the planet. We're connected with the planet itself and the animals. We're connected with our creator, whatever name we choose to call them. And we release any limiting beliefs that we have placed upon ourselves to the contrary. And we release any injuries or traumas that we may have sustained. As a result of those limiting or exclusive beliefs. And we just embrace the freedom of that, the freedom to express ourselves in whatever way we choose the freedom to be who we are to within the containers that we choose. And we honor and respect our ancestors who didn't have as much freedom as we do as many opportunities to learn. We honor the base that they gave us from their attempts to connect with source. And even if we have chosen differently, we are still a product of their choices. Their choices made us who we are and we honor and appreciate them. And just once more embracing that freedom that we have the luxury of experiencing today, the freedom to be who we are and the beauty. It occurs when Reiki can come together with our spiritual and religious traditions in such a beautiful way. We are so blessed to be of a lineage of light bringers who are creating wellness on the earth today. And that begins with you creating wellness within you. Thank you for the light that you are unto the world. God bless and Namaste. Thank you so much, Justine, for being with us today. And I just want to. Send a special thank you to the listeners. I hope you're enjoying this series as much as I am and learning as much as I am as we go through it. It's just an honor to be with you in this. Have a beautiful week. Yes, blessings.